Peytonphoto
Regular
Between the RX100 III or G7X, there are the obvious differences in focal length, but for someone looking to use Auto mode nearly all the time, does Sony's Auto work better than Canon?
I would go check the PowerShot forum at dpreview. There are a lot of threads talking about the G7X right now, many comparing it to the RX100. One that stands out for me is the one that shows that the lens on the G7X doesn't cover the entire sensor. So the G7X crops the center 18MP and then digitally scales the image back up to 20MP. That would explain the oversharpened with artifacts look the G7X has when pixel peeped. People hoped that shooting raw would get around that. But then you are then left with a 18MP instead of a 20MP camera. Looking at the samples that have been posted, I think the RX100M3 still has the edge in IQ.
The lens on the G7X was it's big advantage. It looked great on paper but Canon made compromises to get that focal length.
As for auto on the RX100. It works about as well as any other camera. I find it picks slower shutter speeds then it needs to based on how well the RX100 does with high ISO. So many times I put it into shutter priority to get around that. Otherwise, I have no complaints.
All of these small cameras have compromises - the RX100 is chock full of them too. That's how they shoehorn such a nice and relatively large sensor into such small cameras. The differences in IQ between the two are in pretty limited circumstances - particular focal lengths at particular apertures. For example, the G7X is pretty soft at 100mm wide open at f2.8, but it's not bad at 85-90mm, and at 100mm it's tack sharp by f3.5, still more than a stop faster than the first two versions of the RX100 has available at 100mm - and of course the RX100 III doesn't have anything longer than 75mm and the first two don't go wider than 28mm.I would go check the PowerShot forum at dpreview. There are a lot of threads talking about the G7X right now, many comparing it to the RX100. One that stands out for me is the one that shows that the lens on the G7X doesn't cover the entire sensor. So the G7X crops the center 18MP and then digitally scales the image back up to 20MP. That would explain the oversharpened with artifacts look the G7X has when pixel peeped. People hoped that shooting raw would get around that. But then you are then left with a 18MP instead of a 20MP camera. Looking at the samples that have been posted, I think the RX100M3 still has the edge in IQ.
The lens on the G7X was it's big advantage. It looked great on paper but Canon made compromises to get that focal length.
As for auto on the RX100. It works about as well as any other camera. I find it picks slower shutter speeds then it needs to based on how well the RX100 does with high ISO. So many times I put it into shutter priority to get around that. Otherwise, I have no complaints.
It's seems the RX100 III is a bit more refined than the G7X?
Did Canon try to differentiate by having a longer zoom, but running into the same issue as noted in the RX100 I and II of having softer images, especially at the wide and zoom focal lengths?
Well, the RX100 III is a third generation camera, although it took a different direction with III than either of the first two, so in some ways it is and in some ways it's not. The G7X clearly tries to do more with the lens than Sony does and it succeeds, but, as is always the case, it doesn't succeed without some tradeoffs. ALL of these small cameras have compromises - it used to be the sensors were compromised compared to what was available and now that the sensors are so good and so relatively large, it tends to be the lens where the tradeoffs occur. The Canon's lens does more than the Sony's lens and around some of the margins, it does it less well. OTOH, where it does it a bit less well is where the Sony doesn't even go, so you've got more capability but at the extreme uses of that capability, you've gotta be aware of it's weaknesses to use it most effectively. As I noted elsewhere, the G7X is rather soft at 100mm wide open at f2.8. Useable for portraits, but notably softer than it is at f3.5, where it becomes tack sharp. Is that a weakness or lack of refinement? The first two iterations of the RX100 only goes to 100mm at f4.9 and the third version stops well short at 75mm. The G7X requires somewhat more software correction at the 24mm end than the RX100 III (the other two don't go that wide), but it's really only visible wide open, in the extreme corners, and under pretty severe software correction. At the end of this post is a shot taken today at f4 at 24mm equivalent. You can pixel peep the corners and decide for yourself if it's a problem. It's not for me, but I guess for some hard-core landscape shooters it might be. Frankly, if I was THAT picky, I wouldn't be shooting any of these compact zoom cameras to begin with. I have other gear for that kind of critical IQ - I don't expect perfection out of a pocket zoom, but YMMV. In short, I'd say any image quality differences are minor and in areas the RX100 III doesn't go.
And I'd personally say that the G7X is much more refined in terms of it's controls which are much more shooter friendly than the RX100's. That's subjective for sure, but the un-engaging controls of the Sony have been a common complaint among reviewers of the RX100 since the first generation and it's still a complaint with the third. Sony didn't learn or didn't consider that a problem for the market they were after. There haven't been many finished reviews of the G7X yet, so I don't know what the consensus will be on the G7X, but to me, it's vastly better in this regard. I suspect I won't be alone in that regard, but I could be wrong. I prefer the ergonomics of the Nikon Coolpix A to the Ricoh GR, and I'm in the very very small minority on that one, so I may be in the minority on this one too.
I personally don't think the RX100 is more refined than the G7X. I do think it has different strengths and weaknesses. For my money, it's only really meaningful strength is the evf, but others may find other things to prefer about it. Oh, Sony does incredible stitched panoramas in camera - they pioneered that and I think they still do it better than anyone, so if you're into panoramas but not enough to do 'em yourself, that's a definite strength. To me, the strengths of the G7X are the greater greater capabilities of the lens and the much better UI. I don't think the differences in IQ are worth much consideration at all having owned both and looked at both quite a bit. For raw, it's the same sensor with the same characteristics, with slightly different tradeoffs with the lenses. For jpegs, some may prefer one over the other - I think more people seem to prefer Canon jpegs, but I'm completely agnostic on that one. I try to avoid jpegs when at all possible.
-Ray
It's seems the RX100 III is a bit more refined than the G7X?
Did Canon try to differentiate by having a longer zoom, but running into the same issue as noted in the RX100 I and II of having softer images, especially at the wide and zoom focal lengths?
Have you considered the Panasonic LX100?
Ray, you seem to prefer the Canon
Is there anything specific that you can point to in handling ?
I have looked at both and the Sony seems nicer and more refined
The Canon just seems to be thrown into an S120 body with a long lens added (aka RX100 version i), but since its soft at the long end doesn't seem to be a point and the EVF is much more useful
just my take
Hi ray,
1. Dedicated Exposure Comp dial, visible on the top.
-Sony don't have, but i think can make do with it.
2. Distance scale for manual focus
-In Sony I do have on screen.
Good to hear - no such thing on the earlier RX100
3. Ability to recall manual focus distance in a "custom" set linked to the "C" setting on mode dial.
-For this is sony have a mode MR inside can custom 3 setting, and recall once you turn to it, not sure is it what you meant.
I know that Sony has custom modes as well, but my point is whether it can remember a manual focus distance. The earlier version couldn't and even my very high end RX1 can't. It always resets when you power down and back up and that's not a feature that can be linked to the custom settings
4. Auto ISO available in Manual mode - WITH exposure compensation
-For this one, I do not know why sony restrict only use either ISO or exposure comp only
But they get this one right on the RX10 and the RX1, so I'm not sure why they wouldn't have added it to the RX100 by now.
5. Some control of minimum shutter speed with auto-ISO in A or P mode - not as refined as I'd like, but usable for me - Sony doesn't have anything of the sort in ANY of it's cameras. I'd love a firmware update to get this in the RX1.
-I think Sony is think as auto and P more is for people that do not want to control anything.
"A" mode refers to aperture priority, not "auto" mode. That's a place to let people control the details - they just don't seem to get the advantage of a minimum shutter speed in auto-ISO - it's not in the RX10 or RX1 either. I'd LOVE to be able to add this to the RX1 firmware
6. Programmable clicking ring on lens that can be set for step zoom. I don't recall exactly how the lens ring on the RX100 worked - whether clicking or seamless
-RX100 III is non clicking, is smooth, i think this is down to personal preference.
7. A couple of fully programmable buttons - I also don't recall what the RX100 offers here - it might have the same.
- RX100 III do have button that can be program.
8. ND filter - I believe the RX100 III has one now too, but the first two didn't...
-Yes, RX100 III do have the ND filter.
9. The touch-screen can be really useful for some types of shooting. I don't personally use it much, but occasionally the touch to focus for off center focus points is really nice. Some people have commented that touch focus is really useful for video, but I roughly never shoot video. And I think on balance most people find the RX100 III to be a better video camera anyway...
-I like the touch screen too... but every camera has it's pros and cons
Well for me, I got the Rx100 III, I like the Front control ring, because is silent. and if you use for video, the ring can be use, you can custom set the ring function. from my understanding the G7x cannot use the front control when in video mode. if I am wrong, when you use it the clicking sound will be recorded too.
both camera is very good. You wouldn't go wrong with either one, more of your personal preference.
will you trade the sony EVF for the 30mm longer reach in canon.
the clicking ring vs the smooth silent ring
for the touch screen on canon and the multi angle screen on sony.
I got a personal liking on sony for the charging method on sony, as it can use the usb to charge the battery. Which mean I can charge on the go with a portable battery pack.
That is just my personal take.